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College Hockey:
NCAA announces sanctions to North Dakota for use of nickname, logo

The NCAA spelled out its punishments to North Dakota for resuming use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo in a letter addressed to the school’s provost, Dr. Paul LeBel, on Wednesday.

The most pressing hockey-related concern is that UND won’t be able to host a women’s hockey NCAA quarterfinal game.

The full text of the letter [.pdf] contains three sanctions that go into effect immediately.

The full text of the letter is below:

Dear Dr. LeBel:

President Robert Kelly (sic) recently informed me that the University of North Dakota was resuming its use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and imagery in connection with its athletics program. I noted in my discussion with you and Mr. Brain (sic) Faison that this action by the university means that your athletic programs are subject to the NCAA’s policies concerning participation in NCAA championships. Please allow me to reiterate the limitations that are in effect immediately:

1. No University of North Dakota team may host an NCAA championship round. If a North Dakota team is selected as the lower-seeded team in a championship competition, North Dakota would be designated as the “home” team but would be assigned to play at the higher-seeded institution’s venue.

2. If the university accepts an invitation to participate in any postseason competition, the NCAA policy requires that student-athletes, band, cheerleading, dance and mascot uniforms and paraphernalia not have hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references during the NCAA championship competition.

3. If an invitation is accepted and the university must forfeit competition because it has not adhered to this requirement, the NCAA reserves its right to seek reimbursement for expenses incurred by the Association for travel, per diem or other expenses in connection with the championship.

It is the spirit of the NCAA’s championship policy that the competing student-athletes (both North Dakota and its opponents) not be distracted or disrupted during the championship by debates about when and where your institution’s Native American imagery or nickname may be displayed or worn. Therefore, we ask that the university take measures to minimize or eliminate the presence of the imagery or nickname brought to an NCAA championship venue.

Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,
Bernard W. Franklin
Executive Vice President of Membership and Student-Athlete Affairs/Chief Inclusion Officer


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  • http://twitter.com/achsdu17 Stephen

    North Dakota is a lot of things and I can’t stand seeing their puke green jerseys in any arena. That said as a hockey fan and a guy who believes in tradition it makes me sick to see the NCAA take these measure against a school that has held on to the title Fighting Sioux for as long as the school has been up and running. As a DU Pioneer I support North Dakota in keeping the name Fighting Sioux and I hope those politically correct d-bags have karma bite them back.

    • Jrregozzi

      As a badger fan I agree with you. This ruling will hurt the area of grand forks. The fans in that area are great. They treated me with respect even with my badger jersey on. NCAA will get bite with this one. I will support North Dakota in keeping the name Fighting Sioux.

    • plmbnts

      As a Minnesota/wcha college hockey fan all my life this saddens me.  Worse-The NCAA run by liberals telling ALL of us (including the tribe)who/what we should be offended by and thereby controlling our speech/freedom is the larger issue.  If the tribe as a whole is truly ‘offended’ I suspect the elders would have taken a vote-both halves of the tribe- and said yes or no.  Offended?–hell yes, as a gopher fan I hate that indianhead because it reminds me of the times when that sweater/hockey team beat my gophers.  I’m American with Norwegian and Chippewa tribe in my blood.  Personally I’ll just have to wait until a team takes the name of some crazy scandinavian group to be offended…oh, wait…… 

  • MN Meditations

    I’m not a Sioux fan, but I wouldn’t wish this on any team. Way to kick them when they’re (men’s team) down (last I checked their roster is looking pretty slim).

  • BernardFranklin

    And if I hear any more about this whole “Sioux business” I will turn the car around and there will be no vacation. Do you read me mister? GOOD!!

  • Stevemcgoff

    As someone with Irsih ancestry, I’m pissed that Notre Dame can use the nickmane “Fighting Irsih” and not be disciplined.  Actually, I don’t give a crap, but I really don’t see a difference between Sioux and Irish in this context.

    • Ledonne 6

      I’m sure you have taken a history class and thus understand the gross difference in discrimination against the Irish versus the Native Americans. While there was discrimination against Irish when they first immigrated to the states, that discrimination died down as they assimilated. The discrimination and suffering the Irish felt was absolutely nothing to the level that the Native Americans have felt. It is up to the tribes that still exist today to decide if the mascot is ok with them. They have decided that it wasn’t.

      • GodsSquadForever

        No actually they decided it was….they are the ones running the petition that eventually overturmed the initial ruling (however this is pending as there are now accusations that the counts were conducted unethically….with no evidence).

      • black hat

        Wow, I’m really glad we have national historical moral arbiters like you who are enlightened enough to tell us all who deserves to feel aggrieved based on how their ancestors were treated. Thanks for being here!

      • Mcglaug1

        So evertything is fine one we assimilated?? How is that not the most closed minded remark on this page? There fore everyone gets treated beeter once they assimilate? Isn’t that exactly what native americans were against? Your logic is faulty.

    • q

       The Fighting Irish never had someone who had never seen a mass, pretending to conduct a mass. That is what started all this, a native American student at Illinois took offense to some white guy dressed as an Indian, pretending to do sacred dances. Can’t say I blame her for being upset.

      • Mcglaug1

        You go to UI right? You know its always been a cultural studies major WHO WAS NATIVE AMERICAN. But you know that.

  • Stevemcgoff

    Whoops, The above comment should be Irish instead of Irsih.  That’s what I get for partaking of some wine before typing!

  • hockey61

    If a team is named the Fighting Sioux, I think that is a compliment.  You wouldn’t mean anything negative.  You wouldn’t name a team that somone would be embarrased to play for or stand behind. 

    • Guest

      And yet the area tribes do not think it is a compliment. Your opinion is not more valid than theres. Besides, I could turn around and say we should name a team “The Fighting Blacks” and say it’s actually a compliment. 

      • Guest

        Actually the local Sioux tribes do consider it a compliment–the one tribe that voted was in favor of the name and the other tribe the tribal elders didnt allow the tribal members to vote or that tribe would have approved the name as well. Do a little looking into the history of the Fighting Sioux name at UND and you will find out that the name was given to the University by the Sioux tribes of North Dakota.

        • Fire17

          Really?  Where are your facts that the other Tribe would support it?  We all know UND tried to buy the tribes off already and that didn’t work with one of them.

          And lets not mention the Name on your arena and what he stood for!

          • nogofer

            Where are the reports UND tried to buy off any Tribe?  More rumors spread by haters.  Next time you are in Vegas you should notice the hospital with a wing with Mr. Engelstad’s name on it…

          • Fire17

            Maybe UND should take a vote and see how many Nazi’s think it is an acceptable name?

            Mr. Englestad had money, that is what people like, if it wasn’t for him, you would still be playing in a dump!  UND had nothing to do with paying for the hospital or arena!

          • Guest

             The old Ralph blew Marihucci mamma’s rink away!!!!!!!!

          • Richard

            when confronted with no intellgent response, resort to insults.

          • Fan Man

             I hope your comment was not directed at me?

          • nogofer

            Hater:  Party of one…

          • GodsSquadForever

            The petition….they are the people who started the petition….you go do your facts before responding.  See how this all doesnt make sense.  The only people who say it is offensive are the liberal whites and a handful of Natives.  The majority of the Natives say they would like to keep the name….hence, that is why THEY started the pettition.

          • Fire17

            Lets ask the Nazi’s?  Funny how you ignored that part….and why?  Because a white guy Engestad had money. 

            Its ok to use the Indian name for your team that people find hostile,  but you took the money from a guy who supproted Hitler and Nazism?

            Good moral value…… Maybe you guys should be fighting to have the North Dakota Fighting Nazis….

          • Fan Man

             That’s all you got?  Really…   HAHAHAHAHa   Your getting better all the time!  Your just lucky you get to say this online and not to one of our faces

          • Mcglaug1

            Im actually a huge advocate of animal rights… im going to need to file a complaint with the ncaa that alabama buy each elephant that they have offended a lifetime supply of peanuts….
            Fire17 needs to find a better cause.

          • Scott Reed

            can you provide any facts to support that?

      • Mcglaug1

        Next time try naming an African tribe. Not a slang term. Try and convince me that the Zulu wouldn’t want a hockey team in their honor.

  • Dckaasa

    The cowards at the NCAA will gladly pick on a low national money maker, the Sioux, but will they touch the Florida Seminoles or the ND Fighting Irish?  Of course not, they bring in too much money through the sponsors and television rights.  The NCAA picked a sacrificial lamb to say they are doing something but they surely will not touch the high revenue schools.  As long as the money is right, the name irrelevant.

    • DINFOK

       Maybe the NCAA has secretly changed their name to the NATIONAL CASH ACCEPTANCE ASSOCIATION

    • Guest

      My understanding was that the Seminoles got permission from the area tribes to keep their mascot. North Dakota has not received permission. 

      • bronxbomberz41

        That is the same deal with Illinois Fighting Illini.  The Illini tribes gave permission as long as the school made changes to the presentation and did away with what were native american stereotypes, and displayed imagery that was consistent with the illini people

        • Guest

          Exactly. UND is the not the first or only school that had to deal with this. 

          • Am3565

            there is also a difference in presenting a people as inherently hostile and not. so in the case of seminoles, there is not necessarily a stigmatizing reference.

          • black hat

            But apparently it’s not stigmatizing for Notre Dame to use “fightin’ irish” and use a “put-up-yer-dukes” icon of a guy with a shamrock in his hat.

        • Guest

          The Illini were a confederation of tribes, none of which really exist anymore.  The closest descendants are in Oklahoma.  Thus, there were no tribes to give permission.  Illini is also a term referring to the people of Illinois though, and it was used long before Chief Illiniwek.  So it was the NCAA that gave permission to keep the name because they couldn’t come up with an argument to disallow the name of the state’s people from representing the state’s flagship university.  As to stereotypes, none has been used for several decades.  Since the Illini were more than one tribe, the imagery could never be consistent with all of them.  It was the Oglala Sioux who was contracted to make the regalia. 

        • Anonymous

          there is no illini tribe

    • Fire17

      Learn your facts before you speak.  That is the problem with North Dakota fans, they only see with Green colored glasses.

      Florida State had there nickname approved by the Indian Tribes.  NORTH DAKOTA DID NOT GET APPROVAL FROM ALL INDIAN TRIBES!!!!

      Maybe one day you will accept the facts, there are plenty of other schools that have changed there nicknames as well.

      • nogofer

        Learn your facts:  One Tribe’s Elders refused to allow the electorate to vote. They were denied an opportunity to say yes or no.

        • Mike

          So UND didn’t meet the requirements to keep it.  Your point is moot.

          • nogofer

            If YOU were denied due process you, too, would protest…

          • Fire17

            You were not denied due process!  Your not part of the Tribe that said NO!

            You just went to UND!!  This actually has nothing to do with you.

          • Fan Man

             Sioux Fans, Does this not sound like Sue8ter with a different name?  He is back at it again and by the looks of it, doing a good job of pissing me (maybe you) off Again    Another troll with nothing better to do than be a jerk!

          • nogofer

            We will exhaust all legal remedies.  You would do likewise if you felt you (or your family) were wronged.  You are wrong in that one Tribe said NO, their elders allowed them to say NOTHING.  As I am Caucasian it “has nothing to do with” me, but I wonder (actually I know) how my Native relatives think:  They APPROVE of the name and logo.

        • Fire17

          Thats how a Tribe works.  They don’t need to have a electoral vote.  Keep trying to find more excuses.

          Find a new nickname like meany Universities have.

          • black hat

            As someone of Irish descent, I object to Notre Dame’s hateful usage of the “Fightin’ Irish”. Where’ the NCAA helping me out on this? Or aren’t the Irish demeaned and stereotyped enough for you?

          • Fire17

            Another idiot…  Not even close to what happened in U.S. history.  We never took land from you….

          • ND

            Hey Fire 17.. You sure know a lot about everything these days.. Now go cheer for your Holy Cross or Union, warm up a glass of shut the hell up and be done with your crap comments….

          • beefheart

            Hey ND, that there is funny as the dickens. Thanks for the laugh.

          • Fire17

            Nothing better to do in ND.. How original

          • Fan Man

             I think he is even “liking” his own comments because if there is anyone who can agree with this joke of a commentator, I would sure love to hear who.  Complete garbage and makes no sense….   Doesn’t read newspapers, web, and talks out her ars

          • black hat

            So sounds like the answer is no. Thanks for being the one person in the land who is so obviously qualified to answer on the validity of historical oppression of ethnic groups. You’re the best!

          • MinniePearlJam

            Fire17, I’m glad you are such an expert on how a tribe ”works” (as if there’s only one way they all “work”). You are a fool. I am of Seminole descent. My mother was full blooded Seminole. It is pure nonsense and stupidy to believe that a team chooses a mascot intending to demean or make fun of that mascot. Only an idiot would believe that. If that was their intent, I think the North Dakota Fire17s would fit the bill.

          • SIOUXFAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

             since when does anyone own anything? if a peoples or say “something” has the ability to take then let it be taken. The past is the past, though in many cases thinking of things that have happened saddens all. But justifying yourself through entitlement of things that occurred over 100 years ago has no bearing in talks today. North Dakota has done many great things for the Natives of the prairies. whether it is through yearly scholarships or fundraising…your ignorance speaks for itself.  

          • Beach

             Try studying the history of the discrimination of the Irish throughout history, it is not only what happened to them when they were in the US.  It is a point, but actually, is a good one.  Talk to my Grandparents about what happened to their families and how they feel about the depiction of “the fighting Irish”.

          • Guest

            Irish Americans have not experienced discrimination and prejudice anywhere near to the same degree as Native Americans. You’ve taken history, haven’t you?

            You cannot tell someone of a minority ethnic group what they can and can not be offended by. 

          • Neats

             But you can tell an Irishman what he can and cannot be offended by?

          • Guest

            No, nor did I even attempt to. My point was that the reason that no one is up in arms about the Fighting Irish is because of they are not historically a minority and have not undergone major historical discrimination.

          • Neats

             Hello?  The Irish were a minority and were discriminated against when they immigrated to this country.  You know why so many cops were Irish?  Because it was the only job they could get.  At one time, signs saying “Irish need not apply” were common and accepted.

            The point is that if the NCAA were against discrimination and abolished all Indian mascots fine.  But then keeping an Indian mascot as long as the tribe approved should not be an option.

          • Gregmills1977

            Why neats? I am not convinced the NCAA picked the best approach but it is a reasonable one even if you don’t like it.

          • beefheart

            I am not trying to be too contrarian, but what about the British in Northern Ireland? I am not an expert on such matters, heck , I am not even qualified to be a novice, but there is some religious / social oppresion if I am not mistaken.

          • Scott Reed

            Have you ever looked back at the history of boxing? A lot of Irishman use to be fighters, they had the reputation when they immigrated here and they were good at it.  Look back through the history of the USA, a minority’s and groups who were discriminated against, in many cases,  were first only accepted because of athletics.  

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=17500027 Laurel White

             That’s like saying the Jews have not been historically discriminated against…google discrimination of irish if you need more information…

          • black hat

            Yeah, I’ve taken history, and the Irish have experienced plenty of discrimination. But apparently since our skin color is akin to most other Europeans, as a class our discrimination must somehow be lessened. Your statement is a classic example of why most people take a giant dump on anything politically correct – it’s so hypocritical and disingenuous it’s as insulting as saying “Irish need not apply”.

          • HuskyHauler

            I didn’t know that amount of prejudice was a factor. And I assume from your comment you’ve taken history classes? If you’ve studied any form of immigration history in the United States you would know how much the Irish were persecuted here.

          • JS Tigers

            Actually, this is EXACTLY what the NCAA is doing.  They are telling the Sioux nations that they need to be offended by the nickname.

          • guest

            But the NCAA can tell the Native Americans from ND they should be offended by the name? What about the majority of the Native Americans from ND that have expressed their support for the name but are unable to voice their beliefs.  The NCAA is telling the Native Americans they should be offended, when in reality they are honored.

          • Mcglaug1

            I do seem to recall them stepping off the boat during the potato famine. And pressed into service for the Union in the civil war…. no big losses there for potato farmers from the emerald isle who had not shot a gun before. Where did you take history?

          • Neats

            I have a better idea.  Just ask ND for money and let ND continue to use Fighting Irish.  This the NCAA supports.  I am sure they will support you in your quest for compensation.

          • SIOUXFAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

             so you approve of one voice speaking for all? you must live in the stone age as well….in todays society the people speak and should have the right to.

        • Guest

          This is only problematic if in any other context the entire tribe is allowed to vote on various matters. If all other matters are decided by the counsel, then no one can impose a change on the way they make decisions just because we don’t like the decision or how they made it.

          • nogofer

            And I agree.  The nation that is the Standing Rock Sioux has different rules.  That said, I have read that a vast majority of the members are in favor of, or at the very least care very little either way about, the Fighting Sioux name.  They apparently do not use representative government.

      • GodsSquadForever

        UUUMMMMM yes they did, they were the ones who appealed the initial rulings….get your facts straight!

        • Mcglaug1

          They weren’t Illini. There are none. Get your facts straight.

      • Pkmcp31

        Learn to spell.  There refers to a location.  Belonging to them is THEIR.

        Now – FSU only needed approval frorm the Seminole tribe – not ALL tribes.  
        Learn YOUR facts.

        There are TWO SIoux tribes and they do not get along,  So when one approved the use of the name (demanded it actually) the other did not.

        Illinois gets screwed since there is no such thing as the Illini tribe. They can use the name because it means “people from Illinois” but cannot use native imagery so their Chief Illinwek is out.

      • Neats

        So as long as a tribe agrees to be humiliated when their name is used as a mascot the NCAA is okay with it?

        I went to the University of Illinois.  Named after the Illini Inidans.  We had to retire Chief Illiniwek because it was humiliating.  To whom?  There are no Illini left.  The tribe ceased to exist over 100 years ago.

        • Duper 10

          There was never a tribe called the Illini.  The Illini was used as short for the Illinois Confederation, a group of tribes, none of which were called Illini.  I believe that there are still some Peoria left, but they were part of the relocation.

      • Bobchetah

        Actually, most of the actual Seminole tribe live in Alabama and oppose the use of the Seminole name and imagery at FSU. 

      • Scott Reed

        You are correct we did not get approval from all indian tribes, but you need to get your facts straight, a corrupt tribal leadership of one of the tribes wouldn’t allow their tribe to vote.  THEY DID NOT SAY NO, THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE THEIR VOICE HEARD.  

        Except later when members of the tribe who were not allowed to vote filed a lawsuit in federal court to keep the name.  Maybe you will except the fact that you are not the most informed on this situation or purposefully leaving information out to make it sound worse.

    • Anonymous

      thats not correct… many schools such as the illinois fighting illini and the ole miss running rebels have been discontinued. Don’t act like ND is the first school to be sanctioned by the ncaa for something like this

    • Mcglaug1

      University of Illinois lost their symbol and The Chief. Thank God UND didnt just role over and die like UI did.

  • Dogsfan9

    Isn’t the NCAA headquarters in INDIANapolis?

  • UofMGoldenChokers

     It is absolutely appalling that all of this comes from white people bringing it up. I never saw any law suits brought by any of the tribes in North Dakota nor any specific member of any of these tribes. Its ridiculous that the NCAA does not listen to the people that they say they are helping by doing this. I lived in Grand Forks for 4 years and never once did I ever hear anything but praise for the name and logo from Native Americans on campus and around the community. Once again, the PC clowns of the NCAA have failed to actually contact the tribes of ND and get their take on it. Does the NCAA not get enough money from UND? Are they just a  piddly, little school on the prairie that they dont care about? Because that is exactly what they are portraying UND to be. Maybe they should see that the tribes of ND and all of the people in ND support the school, the name/logo and have the utmost respect for Spirit Lake and Standing Rock tribes.

    • Guest

      Actually, they have contacted the tribes. North Dakota did not receive permission from at least one tribe. 

    • Fire17

      ONE TRIBE DOES NOT SUPPORT THE LOGO AND NAME! 

      • SIOUX4EVER

        No – both tribes love the nickname – The standing Rock tribe is not allowed to vote on the matter because the tribal counsel is a bunch of a*ses.

        In time they will be allowed to vote and the name will stand forever

        GO SIOUX!!!!

        • Fire17

          Then why was it rejected by one Tribe?  It’s always nice to fight for something that means little to you and is just a nickname for a school.

          Your Heritage has nothing to do with it, so please speak freely on how this is more important to you.

          • UofMGoldenChokers

            Do you know how to read? As sioux4ever said, the tribe was told by their “great” leaders that they couldnt vote on it. One person telling them what they will think/do does not constitute the entire tribe saying they dont like it. A vote would have overwhelmingly passed in favor of the name. So dont sit there like an idiot and say the entire tribe is against it.

          • Mcglaug1

            Fire man is too busy ranting about nazi exploits in our country. Put short, no he did not read.

      • UofMGoldenChokers

        No, both tribes love the name. Just because 2 or 3 “elders” who basically tell their people what to think and do dont like it doesnt mean the entire tribe has the same feeling. Why do you think there are all these lawsuits and petitions going around? All brought up by members of both tribes. The people of the standing rock tribe might as well switch to communism, because that is basically what they are living in. Their voice is not heard.

        • Fan Man

           Cant wait until standing rock has the opportunity to vote!  NCAA has no clue and are pissing all over the constitution by doing this….

  • WCHA HOCKEY

    The NCAA is so bad, personally I can just guess that they really don’t even care about the Indians or any other culture, they are just doing it for the show.

  • Blueline892910

    NC$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

  • NY_Nittany_Lion

    What a group of hypocritical bullies in Indianapolis.  I complain about this all the time and I’ll do it again.  White dude in face paint on a horse with flaming spear?  Not offensive.  Picture of leprican with fists raised?  Not offensive.  Picture of Indian head in headdress (no weapons)?  Offensive?  That doesn’t even pass the smell test.  Perhaps we could all put this behind us if the idiots in Indianapolis would just tell Grand Forks how much they need to “donate” to the NCAA to put this behind us…

  • Ottawachief

    What tribe are they contacting exactly, the Sioux do not really exist in any organized manner anymore

  • Bel93court

    Another instance where the full story hasn’t been told. The Spirit Lake tribe voted yes, to keep the Fighting Sioux. The Standing Rock tribal elders refused to let their members vote. The Spirit Lake tribe has a lawsuit against the NCAA stating the NCAA violated the religious and first amendment rights of the Dakota Sioux tribes.

  • noonan18

    What business does the NCAA have in deciding this. Shouldn’t it be the school and the tribes that need to work this out? If the tribes ok it, let it be. If they are not, its up to the tribe and school to work it out. The NCAA needs to stay out of it. They have more things to worry about like the BCS and pedophile coaches.

    Great!! The best road jerseys in college hockey are soon to be going away. And I’m not even a Sioux fan.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/brice.burge Brice Burge

    The only reason why NoDak didnt get support is because one tribe has refused to allow its members to vote. The other tribe did so and overwhelmingly supported NoDak. Many members of that Standing Rock tribe signed the petition with the state to have a state wide vote next election. So it looks like the NCAA in their ruling has completely circumvented an entirely legal constitutional process. This case is the biggest civil rights issue in the country in terms of actual litigation process and as a Native American myself, this is going to end up effecting way more than just a university name.

    • Fire17

      The NCAA has its own bylaws….  This meaning that to be a member of the NCAA you have to follow the bylaws, not the state laws.

      Maybe North Dakota can sign a bill into law saying North Dakota has to play in the NCAA Hockey Championship every year!

      Really get real

      • UofMGoldenChokers

        You sound like a disgruntled goophs fan. Did I hit it right on the head?

        • mahogma

          So quit the NCAA. Nobody is forcing the Susans to be a member.Their club,their rules. Don’t like it? Tough. How did you ever assume that the NCAA was a democracy?

        • collegehockeyrocks

          I would imagine 99% of “goophs” fans support UND in this. We are actually the Gophers. Name calling just lowers yourself to the likes of Ledonne 6 and Fire 17. I wonder if  the NC$$ doesn’t start interviewing Gophers or Badgers to see if they are offended. Wonder how they are going to talk to Beavers…I was looking forward to b.s.-ing about hockey this time of year, letting you know how the GOPHERS were going to kick FIGHTING SIOUX butt.

          • Fan Man

             Now this is a guy we (SIOUX) Fans can talk too…  No criticizing, well not too much anyway, just strait up hockey talk!  I hope to see you in St. Paul for the regional but wait…..   Final Five coming up soon and maybe a semifinal game next weekend :)  We need a little redemption in OUR home building at the X LOL

          • Fan Man

             Wow wait up..  Getting a little ahead of myself (Game Day and the blood is flowing).  two weekends from now is the Final Five and assuming both our teams sweep or go 2-1 next weekend, we will see you at the X i’m hoping..

          • UofMGoldenChokers

            Im not wrapping up all of the MN fans in with this guy….or shall I say little girl. Im sure most of them want to see the name stay. Its a great rivalry. This fire crotch 17 is just a complete idiot. He/she is pretty good at making him/herself look like a fool. Back to mommy’s basement for you!

      • nogofer

        NC$$ laws cannot conflict with or circumvent federal, state or local laws…

  • Knee Hockey

    I guess the real question is…..if the NCAA will not be swayed in their position (call them bullies…whatever) why is the University still holding on to the nickname.  We are all hearing about how they are cancelling track meets, forcing the team to potentially be the home team at another venue….etc.  I get tradition and everything else, but you are going to cost current athletes the chance to have competitions played the right way, your are going to lose recruits because of the uncertainty of the changes and ultimately….you will lose the chance to join another conference in your Division II sports.

    Is it all worth it to keep a nickname regardless of the NCAA’s shady tactics in forcing UND’s hand?

    • FightingSioux4ever

      That is the dilema for true Sioux fans.  I have loyalty to one team, UND.  It kills me to see this debate drag on, and even the die-hard fans (me) are getting tired of it.  In the meantime, the current athletes are the real losers.  I want to retain the nickname, but the NCAA is hell-bent on seeing this one through.  And the band played on…

      • Knee Hockey

        I have been a loyal Gopher Fan for years.  I understand loyalty to your team (although sometimes the carry over between fan bases can get a little annoying).  I love getting fired up for big rivalries….Sioux, Badgers, Bulldogs, Huskies (although I think St. Cloud fans care a little more than I do).  I will always love the rivalry against UND whether they are called the Sioux or something else.  For me, it is the team vs. the team….not the name vs. the name.  Although I am not a fan of the way the NCAA has handled this….they did put forward a mandate on what needed to be done in order to keep the nickname.  I am not going to debate what the ND state legislators do in order to keep the nickname, but for me…..it really is just hurting the students, University of North Dakota and its potential recruits.  Looking from the outside in….tradition and pride doesn’t change because you have to get a new nickname….you just make it yours and support your athletic teams.  You are not out supporting the Sioux….you are out supporting the athletes who represent your school in sporting events.

  • Gs

    Okay.  These are the sanctions.  Now tell Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa to back off and start scheduling UND.  Encouraging schools to not schedule UND was NOT part of the sanctioning.

    • Fire17

      Its a University policy, not an NCAA policy moron.  Any NCAA University can choose who they want to schedule or not.

      • SIV

         It sucks that other University’s are scared….

  • Gs

    Last year the North Dakota legislature passed a law mandating that UND keep the nickname.  Last fall they rescinded the law.  A group called the Committee for Understanding and Respect (mostly people from the Spirit Lake Tribe) collected signatures for a June state-wide referendum, which effectively rescinded the rescinded law and now the teams are once again known as the Fighting Sioux.  In the meantime, the Committee has sued the NCAA and is still collecting signatures to put the nickname mandate in the North Dakota constitution.  UND has very publicly asked to be able to retire the nickname, but at this point it’s out of their hands.

    • Fire17

      Way to waste taxpayer money on a University nickname..  Just shows you how much of a hick state North Dakota is.

      Nothing good there

      • Dave

        Considering North Dakota has over a Billion dollar surplus, we will decide what to do with our state money.  Thanks.

        • mahogma

          With all that cash,why don’t you go start your own Athletic Association? Then maybe you can wear whatever you want. Hell,then you can dictate what everybody else wears,too. What part of “their club-their rules” can’t you get a handle on?  You have the freedom to belong or not belong. If you feel the benefits of belonging to the NCAA aren’t worth the price of changing to adapt to their policies,what other choice do you have? The tail don’t wag the dog. Not fair? Life isn’t fair. In case you haven’t noticed,there area LOT of NCAA member institutions who are none too pleased with some of the rules they have in place regarding the current football postseason situation,and there are grumblings about the larger conferences abandoning the NCAA en mass. ND doesn’t have that luxury,no matter how much you wish it did.

          • Fan Man

             You are completely missing the point here sir…

        • Richard

          You do that and maybe you can use some of that money to make up for all the University revenue that will be lost because of your decision.

      • SIV

         You are Fired17   Only a hick would say what you just did     Stay classy my friend!

      • UNDFIGHTINGSIOUXSCORING

        You’ve apparently never been to North Dakota have you Fire? Way to stay civilized in a debate….

        • Fire17

          Civilized… really?   You try to stand on one leg that your nickname is not defensive, but one tribe does not support it.

          But then you take money from a man who backed the Nazi’s to build you a rink?  Those are facts! 

          Can have your cake and eat it to! 

          • UNDFIGHTINGSIOUXSCORING

            Since I’ve ever received more than a dime from Ralph buddy…..

            Since only a few people from the SR tribe made that decision I am going to take your comments with a huge grain of salt. If it was placed to a vote and the people of the SR tribe did not want it than I would be fine with the situation. 

            Furthermore I meant civilized in your demeanor in dealing with this debate. Calling people morons, hicks, and just trolling on people in general does not give me the impression that you as a person have very much character. At least it is not on display here.

          • Fan Man

             Amen!

          • Mcglaug1

            Fire needs to be renamed sparky… do love the fact that while he earlier can state “you have oppressed their people” but now when they have to sign a petition to keep the name…. whose the nazi now?

  • UNDFIGHTINGSIOUXSCORING

    The fact that I have heard next to no one within the state of North Dakota or the country for that matter backing the NCAA’s claims that the UND logo is offensive/racial/abusive goes to show that this whole thing is out of control. The NCAA are cowards who care about one thing and one thing only—–>$$. I hope UND and the state of North Dakota don’t back down and I hope those individuals at the NCAA can focus more on young boys being fondled in a locker room than a nickname that next to no one finds offensive. I bet if UND brought in the money that other D-1 football teams bring in this would not even be an issue.

  • beefheart

    Dear NCAA, please get a real job.    Sincerely, Golden Gopher fan.

  • GodsSquadForever

    Is this even legal?  Can FSU or Illinois hold NCAA sanction events?  The one correlation….all three schools received support from the local native tribes in their area.  Why are we being punished and not those schools?

    • Guest

      Yes, Illinois can hold NCAA sanctioned events, because the Chief Illiniwek icon was given up, which was the issue the NCAA took in that particular case.

      • GodsSquadForever

        Oh, I never knew that.  What about FSU?

  • Guest

    It is my understanding that UND is between a rock and a hard place.  If, because of North Dakota law, they don’t use the Fighting Sioux nickname they would be breaking the law.  So now the NCAA says break the law or face sanctions.  Does not seem right.  Is that what the NCAA would like the student athletes to do also?  Break the law because it suits us.

    • Guest

      I would agree with you, but I think the law was created as a reaction to the sanctions to try to prevent the NCAA from enforcing the rules on UND. If the law had been in place for years, the situation might be different, but I don’t think it was. 

      Additionally, this law sets a negative precedent because I don’t think it says the nickname must have permission from the tribes. Regardless of whether North Dakota has it in this case or not, if the NCAA excused on the basis of the law, it would open up other states to pass laws that ignore a minorities right to their own name in order to do what they themselves wanted. 

    • NDr

      The even more interesting part is that it’s members from Spirit Lake SIOUX Tribe that got the petition going and went to court to require UND to keep the name until the vote occurs.  I don’t know why UND doesn’t just pay off Standing Rock like Florida does the Seminoles and just get it over with!!!

  • Iowa Hockey Fan

    I think that North Dakota should demand that the NCAA functionary who wrote the letter stop using “Chief” Inclusion Officer in his title.  After all, if we’re going to allow political correctness to run amok, why not go all the way?

  • no name

    The excel center in Saint Paul has all the WCHA jerseys on display. If they don’t take down the ND one do the Gophers have to forfeit when the host the regional?

  • HugeHockeyFan

    Here’s some points I find interesting about this nickname crap and the pc crowd.

    1.  A town in ND called Devils Lake had the nickname as the Satans.  They were forced to change it because they were “honoring” Satan.  But when it comes to the Sioux nicknames are demeaning and derogatory.

    2.  Requiring Standing Rock to approve the name is kind of a farce in that most of it’s people and council reside in SD.  Like SD residents are going to vote for a ND name.  The NCAA should have kept the name unless the tribes held a vote of the people and they were AGAINST the name.

    3.  Why is it that the schools that pay off their tribes (a share of nickname/logo proceeds) are allowed to keep their nicknames?  If a “bribe” is involved then the nickname is no longer demeaning and derogatory?  We all know money means everything to the NCAA and this is just further proof that $$$ supercedes principles with these folks.

    4.  Why is it that only native american nicknames are demeaning and derogatory, but other nicknames are considered an honor?

    I find it such a shame that when crime, rape, incest, and so many other social problems exist on these two reservations that one of the few things that exemplifies pride and their struggles is being removed because of the misguided ideals of the few and not the many.

    • Anonymous

      in reference to #4…ole miss runnin’ rebels just got their mascot changed by the NCAA

      • black hat

        The *actual* mascot is a bear; they’re still known as the Rebels. And it was in 2010.

    • Colorado Bulldog

      1. What prompted the NCAA to enact the rule in the first place?  Did something happen to force these new rules?  And if it is such a big deal, then why are there even exemptions?  
      2. What happens if a tribe changes their decision?  And how does one decide if there is approval from the “tribe” – the tribal leader, majority or unanimous vote, flip of a coin?
      3. Why are the Sioux people offended?  UND is proud of the logo and thinks it embodies who they want to be, basically the ultimate sign of respect.  On top of that, the Sioux people have been granted so many benefits as a result… free school for themselves and their families, native american courses added, increased name recognition, etc.
      4. Lastly, the behavior of UND and the state of North Dakota is the reason there is not a happy resolution.  Their attitude of “How dare the NCAA tell us what we can/cannot call ourselves” only made things worse.  They should have opened the door to dialogue early in the process and made the NCAA a partner instead of the enemy.  They pushed the NCAA into having to save face and respond to their aggression.  

    • Hockey12589

      I have a hoodie from Aniak High School in Aniak, AK. Home of the Halfbreeds!

  • Think4st

    Illiniwik Indians were WIPED out when other tribes moved through.  Illinois has removed their (got that one right) mascot, but the fans HATE IT!

    • Mcglaug1

      The Chief was not a mascot he was a symbol. Do hate it though.

  • CrockOGrimaldi

    too bad they didn’t send a letter for being d-bags on the ice and warning them against head shots and players going on benders and causing damage

    • nogofer

      OK, you’re done, buh-bye…

      • Fan Man

         Ya nogofer, dont talk to LOSERS   Not worth ur time

    • GodsSquadForever

      Moderators???? Moderators???? Moderators???? Moderators???? Moderators???? Moderators???? Moderators???? Moderators???? Moderators???? Moderators???? Moderators???? Moderators???? Moderators????

    • FightingSioux4ever

      Go back under your bridge, you angry little troll!

  • ND NATIVE

    Im curious about what will happen when the class action lawsuit filed by the tribes against the ncaa goes more public… The ncaa never asked the natives what they actually want… Both tribes were present in religious ceremony preformed in 1969 giving UND permenant and unwaivering permission to use the name. That ceremony is the native equivelant of a binding and lifetime contract. It is much worse for that origional agreement to not be upheld than anything else possible… Mark my words the ncaa is violating native american civil and religious rights and will not succede in droping the na,e and logo… Fighting Sioux Forever!!!

  • ski-u-mah

    Sorry folks, but the “other schools and teams use racially offensive mascots” is and old and tired one.  Yes, some my be offended by the “Fighting Irish,” but the fact is, the Irish are now widely accepted and celebrated in this country.  (Try to find someone wearing green in a couple weeks on March 17th).  And on top of this, lets be honest, the ‘domers just make wayyy too much money and have far to large and loyal of a following 1) a large enough group to be up in arms about it or 2) have the NCAA even dare to tackle that issue.  As far as the “Indians,” “Redskins,” “Braves,” etc., yes, these are even more racially charged than the Sioux, but they exist in private industry that isn’t responsible for education.  So unfortunately, they are in the hands of MLB, NFL, and the teams owners.  Overall its just time to accept that the times they are a changin’ and you probably shouldn’t have picked a school mascot that represents the people fighting off your ancestors who were taking their land.  If you would’ve gone with something like, say, a Golden Gopher, you wouldn’t be having this issue now would you.  Have fun with your white jerseys in the playoffs.  Time to grow up and move on UND.

    • Knee Hockey

      Ski-U-Mah…..very well put.  I only disagree with the grow up part.  Tradition is a huge part of sports and pride in your University.  Having said that……everything else is spot on.  You can still have pride in your University and sports teams even though you have to change your name.  I applaud the University for standing up to the NCAA, but realistically…you have lost.  And the losers?  The Athletes, potential athletes who might shy away from going to the University and the University itself.  My high school had to change its nickname from “Indians” during the time I was there and we had to adopt a new nickname.  Funny….I am pretty sure the school made a killing on new apparel sales and within the first season, everyone had adopted the new name.  It’s pride in your athletes representing your University.   As Herb Brooks would say….the name on the front is a hell of alot more important than the one on the back.  He would probably also say…..doesn’t matter what is on the front of the jersey….just that it represents a team!

    • FightingSioux4ever

      Sorry, people from ND dont’ just “go away”.  If it’s soooo painfull for you, don’t read the coverage of it.  It’s a small enough issue thati isn’t even mainstream.

  • Djh47a

    Why is Dakota if Sioux isn’t? The NCAA should force them to just go by “North”.

  • Hockey12589

    Obama has no respect for state’s rights or people’s rights, and neither does the overbearing, over-reaching, self-rightous, self-Important behemouth: the NCAA. Hopefully Obama will be voted out and the good, hard working citizens of North Dakota successfully sue the bejeebers out of the NCAA! BTW. There will be no NCAA regional hockey purchases by me this year.

    • Genoway

      hellooooo? serious paranoid racist here!  Do you think they faked the moon landing?

    • ibanezist00

      Have you really convinced yourself that Obama himself in any way, shape or form cares about the day-to-day operations of the NCAA or the name of North Dakota’s hockey club? If you did, I’ve got a tinfoil hat I’d like to sell you…

  • Mouse That Snored

    If this issue had any traction at all, the NFL team in our nation’s capital would not be called the “Redksins”.  I think the NCAA drew a line-in-the sand and there is no one with authority who can cross it.   My preference would be for Congress to step up to the NCAA, and BCS, and neuter them both

  • Loveablemd

    How stupid. Just like Colgate had to drop Red Raiders and now must go by Raiders. Do people really have nothing more important to be concerned about?

  • dbznd

    I apologize for the length of this message, but it’s not posted anywhere that I know of. This is a copy of the letter sent by Citizens for Understanding & Respect, a group of Spirit Lake tribal members (with authority from their Tribal Council) and also from Standing Rock (speaking on their own). For more information, please go to http://www.savethefightingsioux.com

    Dear Student Leaders of the University of North Dakota:
     
    On behalf of the Spirit Lake Tribe (Dakota Sioux) of North Dakota, greetings and peace to you. We are the Spirit Lake Nation Committee for Understanding and Respect. We have been empowered by our Tribal Council  through resolution to communicate regarding the truth surrounding the use of the Fighting Sioux name and logo on the athletic field by UND for the past 80 years.
     
    Recently you were provided an email by your student body president encouraging you to become as educated as possible on the Fighting Sioux issue. It is in this spirit that we write you so that you can learn and understand our viewpoints as well, and further that education.
     
    We ask you, as student leaders, to understand the following:
     
    Understand that the Fighting Sioux name has been given out of respect, honor, and pride; and that it has demonstrated these traits under which the name was given for over 80 years.
    Understand that we defend our rights and our culture which have been heralded by UND for 80 years by the past leaders and students who have embraced our gift, and built a tradition on a public platform that is recognized nation wide.
    Understand that this attack on the Fighting Sioux name is what creates the divisional force dividing the citizens of North Dakota and your campus.  This attack is destroying what has been built by the people of North Dakota.   We see the blatant disregard for our rights, as well as the will to bring forth a vote by the people for the people, by those who are not in elected positions.   All people of North Dakota need to take heed in these actions against our rights, for our rights are your rights. 
    Understand that it is not our intention to cause harm to any student athlete at UND.  We challenge those who are tearing down 80 years of tradition and pointing at the Symbol that represents not only UND Athletics; but the student body, the institution of UND, and the people of this state and its heritage. 
    Understand that this Symbol represents the people of the Sioux Nation – our race, our creed, color of our skin, our culture, and our religious freedoms. For a team or school to not engage in athletic competition with UND because of the Symbol that UND bears on their chests is discrimination against us as people.   We question the judgment and motives of those who are canceling events, resisting scheduling competition, and openly stating that they will not compete against UND because they are the Fighting Sioux. 
    Understand that the harm which is inflicted upon UND has not come from 80 years of tradition, but rather the recent actions of the NCAA against UND and its use of the Fighting Sioux Symbol. This demonstrates their continued lack of understanding and respect to our people, as well as the people of North Dakota and their rights to their institutions.
     
    This attack has tested our resolve and our will not only as Sioux, but also as a people of North Dakota.  We defend our gift to UND which was given by our forefathers for what that gift represents.  We honor that gift and the 1969 Sacred Pipe Ceremony as our word to UND to be known as the Fighting Sioux.   Our Sacred Ceremony is on par with your baptism if you are of a Christian faith, and is recognized as such by the Federal Government. Thus, our rights are your rights.  

    We face an opponent who uses tactics and words that are meant to mislead and deceive in an attempt to expunge the Fighting Sioux Symbol from UND and thwart the will of the people to carry a voice. The very policies of the NCAA and its members which they promote point to cultural diversity, civility, tolerance, and acceptance; but appear to be just words. It is the action of men that matter more than letters on paper.  Our defense is on tradition, honor, respect and pride of what is right.   
     
    For those of you who have read Amy Philips writings which were provided to you by your student body president, we would like to share some truths with you.
     
    First; Ms. Philips chooses not to share with you her attempts to unduly influence Spirit Lake in April 16, 2009 as documented on WDAZ 10 PM news and Devils Lake Journal April 17, 2009.  Her writings were thrust upon the members of Spirit Lake. The misinformation presented by her and Erich Longie were rejected by the members of Spirit Lake five days later when 67% of the eligible members voted in support of the Name and Logo. We can summarize her presentation as follows – we found it disgusting.
     
    Second; she fails to tell you the inconvenient truth about how Native Americans truly feel. As an example, Sports Illustrated did a survey in 2002 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/magazine/08/17/indian.wars030402/index.html), which found that 81% of Native Americans do not want Names and Logos to go away, and 67% of Native Americans living on reservations do not want Native American Names and Logos to go. Although a small survey, witness Spirit Lake 2009’ vote also equated to 67% as validation of it’s conclusions.
     
    Third; she fails to mention the aformentioned 1969 Sacred Ceremony performed by Standing Rock and Spirit Lake, Elders, Spiritual leaders, Tribal leaders and judicial leaders in which the name was given. It cannot be taken back without first rejecting the sacred beliefs of Native Americans. The United States Government recognizes those beliefs; who is Amy Philips not to?
     
    Forth; she fails to mention the Department of Justice Office of Civil Right evaluation from 2001 in which they found no evidence that UND or Grand Forks created a hostile or abusive environment. The investigation was thorough, but they could not find substantiation. We too have looked into allegations of hostility toward our race due to the Fighting Sioux name and logo, and found no evidence to support this claim.
     
    Her debate is not about damage to Native Americans, it is as she says it is — about “Social Justice”, in which individuality must fall by the wayside for the so called “Greater Good”. She cites a few unfortunate incidents at UND and attempts to link them to our name and likeness; but common sense tells you that with over the 80 years of history and thousands of students attending each year, these few incidents do not indicate a true trend validating her claims. She also fails to mention Florida Seminoles, which not only has a logo but a mascot. She fails to mention Utah Utes, Mississippi Choctaw; she fails to mention that out of 11 tribes in Michigan (5 of which are Chippewa) only the Saginaw Chippewa Tribes support was needed for Central Michigan Chippewa. She failed to mention Spirit Lake is the only Sioux tribe located entirely in North Dakota, and has allowed their members a voice; versus Standing Rock which is 2/3 in South Dakota and in 2008 passed a resolution that forbids members to have a voice on this issue. 

    Most importantly, she fails to mention that if Native American names are so bad for schools to use, why not question those tribes approval of use by those schools, as she is questioning ours?
     
    Last, she fails to mention that any unfortunate incidents are not the fault of our proud name and likeness; they are instead the acts of an ignorant few. The ignorant are the ones who should be held accountable, not our people and our traditions.
     
    Stand with us on the side of truth and principle.  savethefightingsioux.com

    Sincerely,

    The Spirit Lake Nation Committee for Understanding and Respect
    John Chaske, Chair
    Eunice Davidson, Secretary
    Frank Black Cloud, Spokesman
    Archie Fool Bear, Standing Rock Nation Representative

    • UNDFIGHTINGSIOUXSCORING

      dbznd I keep trying to share your letter with UNDs facebook page, but they keep deleting it. Perhaps you could try and put it up there. I wonder who is controlling the facebook page at UND maybe its Kelly, maybe its O’keefe, but it is certainly someone taking orders from them. Anyway, thank you so much for bringing this to my attention. Once UND quits acting like communists and allows this letter to remain up on their facebook page, perhaps more people will be enlightened by what was shared here. Thank you again.

      • dbznd

        I’ll give it a try – maybe it’s the web addy in the body?

        • UNDFIGHTINGSIOUXSCORING

          No, I just don’t think UND allows people to post things on their wall. Maybe if it was shared within a pre-existing topic it might work.

          • dbznd

            It’s up there – wonder for how long? thanks!!!

          • UNDFIGHTINGSIOUXSCORING

            It’s no longer on the Sioux page, but I did share it to the WDAZ (News in Grand Forks) facebook page and they have left it up there. I will attempt to bring this to other media outlets attention as well across the state. You are right, people need to know the facts.

          • dbznd

            Still there – thank you for the idea. We need to get the facts out there